One is to get a new doctor because she's citing a study done on hyperthyroid patients (as opposed to patients receiving thyroid replacement due to hypothyroid)--if you feel good at your dosage and have no hyper symptoms (diarrhea, excessive weight loss, anxiety, heart palpitations). Your weight loss may indicate over replacement, but not necessarily.

Two--have you considered reducing the Armour and supplementing with synthetic T4? You could get the benefits of bringing your FT4 levels to a more normal level as well as perhaps getting you out of bed in the morning (personally I have found taking my medication including my small dose of Armour at 5:30-6 am gets me out of bed by 7 am most days).

It is quite normal for TSH to be below normal or even suppressed with T3 supplementation.

Check this out, print out the associated research articles and show them to your doctor. Maybe she'll change her mind.

I wish I was doing as well with my symptom resolutions as you are.

reply | quote

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/osteoporosis.htm

reply | quote

That kind of sums up what I'd found too. So, if the new lower dose does leave me feeling worse than before, I will certainly use that information to at least try and convince the doc there's no definite risk. After the first few days at 105mg/day though, I must say I'm not feeling any noticable difference compared to 120mg/day.

--------------
How to Use the New ThyroidStory Site (Where & How to Post)
Technical Help For the New Site (Please post your questions!)

reply | quote

I do notice that the article is primarily addressing patients who's doctors won't medicate them to "low-normal" range ... which was not the case for me. My PhA specifically said she'd have no problem if I was at or near the bottom end of normal (which for the lab my clinic uses is .35), but my TSH was 10Xs lower: .035

I don't think I need a new doc, as she does seem very willing to listen to new information, and does not show any tendency towards the dreaded, "Oh, you're 'within normal range' so nevermind about your symptoms, you're fine" attitude. After all, she raised my Armour from 90mg/day to 120mg/day even though my TSH was "only" ~2.4, which is "within normal range" by almost all current standards.

--------------
How to Use the New ThyroidStory Site (Where & How to Post)
Technical Help For the New Site (Please post your questions!)

reply | quote

It's just a basic matter of fact that T3 supplementation will suppress TSH. Most Armour prescribers know this and adjust dosage based on symptom resolution rather than TSH. Using the TSH assumes that your body is functioning normally and if you have thyroid dysfunction that's just not the case. It's like your pituitary says "Oh look--thyroid hormones! I'll just go back to sleep since obviously I don't need to do anything!" When I started replacement with 25 mcg of Synthroid that's what my gland did leaving me with less thyroid hormone than my own petering out gland was producing and causing me to gain 9 lbs. in 4 weeks.

TSH levels are one indicator of overmedication. But a better one is your free T3 and T4 levels. If those are within range, you are not overmedicated. Even if they are over range, you may not be overmedicated if you have cellular resistance to thyroid hormone or conversion issues.

Here's another site that may be of interest:

http://www.drlowe.com/QandA/askdrlowe/properuse.htm

If you're feeling good at the lower dosage, great. But if not, see if you can educate your doctor about not using the TSH as a primary indicator of overmedication. Obviously we're dealing with glands that are not functioning properly. So why should the pituitary be any more reliable than our malfunctioning thyroid?

reply | quote

You're posting some good info, it'd be nice to be able to distinguish you from all the other "guest" posters around here! :-)

Anyhow, I'm not comfortable assuming that my entire endocrine system is broken just because my thyroid is malfunctioning. Why would I assume my pituitary was "broken" too? That has its own symptomology, none of which seems to be the case for me, outside the symptoms that overlap with hypothyroidism (fatigue, hair loss, irritability) ... most of which I've gotten almost complete relief from.

However, if in 8 weeks' time, I'm feeling worse than before, I will certainly marshall all the study abstracts I can that suggest her concerns about bone density are a non-issue ;-) (I don't think she can make too strong an argument about danger to my heart if my blood pressure and pulse stay as good as they have been).

--------------
How to Use the New ThyroidStory Site (Where & How to Post)
Technical Help For the New Site (Please post your questions!)

reply | quote

I had actually considered requesting a combo levothyroxin/Armour prescription at one point. It's still under consideration, depending on how I'm feeling next time I go in. :-)

--------------
How to Use the New ThyroidStory Site (Where & How to Post)
Technical Help For the New Site (Please post your questions!)

reply | quote

It's Stella--just to lazy to do the sign up thing.

My story: diagnosed with type 1 diabetes 11/04. Shock--thought it might be a thyroid issue since some of the symptoms are similar and I have a family history. Anyway, part of the blood tests to do diagnosis showed a low normal (10% of range) T4, low normal (30% of range) T3, fairly normal TSH--but elevated TPO antibodies. Getting the diabetes under control was priority one.

But once I did that and still had fatigue, weight gain, dry skin, etc., I asked about treating the thyroid. The TSH had gone up to 3.93 by this time, so the endo agreed and started me on the lowest dosage of Synthroid. I gained 9 lbs. in 4 weeks.

She raised it to 75 mcg. and later at my request added 15 mg of Armour. My most recent levels were: TSH .66, T3 3.35 (55% of range), T4 1.11 (31% of range). Symptoms were pretty much unresolved with the exception of the AM fatigue--I take my meds @ 6 am and then chill out until 7 am. It's easier to get out of bed these days.

Even with those test results I was able to get her to up the dosage to 100 mcg of Unithroid (switched for several reasons) and staying with 15 mg of Armour. I seem to be converting T4 to T3 pretty well, so I don't know that I need more than that. I do have issues with joint/muscle pain/stiffness that I never had prior to medication. If it doesn't resolve, I may consider asking for another 15 mg of Armour and take one pill in the AM and the other before dinner.

The regimen I am on is a 98%/2% combo recommended by Dr. Ken Blanchard:

http://www.enotalone.com/article/3531.html

It makes sense to me--especially since I don't have a conversion problem.

Dr. Ridha Arem, author of The Thyroid Solution advocates 6-10 mcg of T3 added to the T4 dosage. You may already know this but each 15 mg of Armour contains 9 mcg of T4 and 2.25 mcg of T3. It's an 80/20 split. The human body is more like 93/7 so the additional T3 cause be a bit much for many people to handle.

Regarding your pituitary gland--it may not actually be "broken" but it's definitely not used to the amount of T3 that is coming into your system now. It senses the hormone and says "Enough. Shut down." Your metabolic system setpoint may be lower from having decreased (and lower than necessary) thyroid hormone in your system. Point is, you're healthy when you FEEL healthy not when your pituitary gland says you are.

If the lower dosage isn't quite cutting it for you and your doctor is squeamish about raising you back up, ask her to add a bit of T4. It should bring your T4 up without suppressing your TSH.

reply | quote

what dosage are you on of armour and levo? my t4 was 1.4 im on armour only for 2months now tsh 2.9 still have hypo syntoms

reply | quote

I'm on 100 mcg of Unithroid and 15 mg of Armour. I convert T4 to T3 just fine, so there's no real reason for me to increase the T3 levels.

At 2.9 it's no wonder you still have hypo symptoms--although your T4 number (if it's free T4 and the range is .8 - 1.8) looks good. You should be aiming to get your TSH under 2. 1-1.5 is ideal--although some people don't feel well until it's really low. Armour generally has the effect of suppressing TSH so the fact that yours is far from that indicate you need a higher dosage.

What's your free T3 level? It's possible you need more T3 and that adding Cytomel to the Armour might be needed.

Stella

reply | quote

Sign up for an account, Stella. ;-)

--------------
How to Use the New ThyroidStory Site (Where & How to Post)
Technical Help For the New Site (Please post your questions!)

reply | quote

my doc.did not test my T3 i really dont think she knows what shes doing she knows nothing about thyroid i think i know more then she does,she just knows how to look at numbers and throw a synthetic T4 in peoples mouth i was feeling really shitty about a week ago when my TSH was 2.9 she insisted that i was in normal range that me feeling bad was all in my head to stop blaming my illness on my thyroid(what a joke she is) so i uped my 60mg twice a day- to 60mg at 1pm,30mg at 7pm,and 60mg at 1am and now im feeling better so i will go in when im better and get tested and show her she was wrong (so sweet,,hehe)im tryin to get around 1.0-1.5 im thinking of gettin a referral to se a endo.

reply | quote

Antoinette, can you find another doctor? An endocrinologist won't necessarily give you better care ... many of them are even *worse* about unquestioningly following test scores with their prescriptions, and endos are often more reluctant to prescribe Armour than regular docs.

Is there a naturopath in your area, or perhaps a doctor who advertises a willingness to use alternative therapies? Those sorts of doctors are generally better about prescribing Armour by the symptoms than others.
--------------
How to Use the New ThyroidStory Site (Where & How to Post)
Technical Help For the New Site (Please post your questions!)

reply | quote

a new doc.hmmm i hope so i have kaiser and dont really have money to spend outside my insurance plan,do you know were i can get assisstance ? or maybe a cheap doc? meaning i dont have 175 per visit:(, that could get quite pricey ,

reply | quote

Your insurance company might have more than one participating doctor in your area, for starters. Also, there might be a clinic in the area with a sliding fee scale ... they'll often mention things like that in their yellow page ads.

--------------
How to Use the New ThyroidStory Site (Where & How to Post)
Technical Help For the New Site (Please post your questions!)

reply | quote

hey mivox and all:) im taking 150mg total daily now 60at 12noon 30at 6pm and 60at 12am but 12am is my last dose til the nex day at 12 noon is this ok? will that throw my levels off? i figure im suppose to take only 3times daily so.... anybody got some inlite on this?

reply | quote

My personal idea on when to take your medication is "whenever it works best for you".

If you're feeling good with that schedule, stick to it! I take one dose at bedtime (around midnight), take a Thyromine when I wake up, and don't usually take my first Armour dose for the day until 3 in the afternoon.

--------------
How to Use the New ThyroidStory Site (Where & How to Post)
Technical Help For the New Site (Please post your questions!)

reply | quote

yes mivox i am a worry wort, im worried that im feeling good now then imma start feeling down again just tired of the ups and downs, all the doses, and my hair still hasnt slowed down from falling out thats really stressin me out!:( and i been on armour now for 3 months and its funny my hair dint start falling out alot until maybe a month ago not when i was diagnosed with hypo im starting to think its the armour making my hair fall out. i read that armour has that side effect but supposed to be temporary, i really hope so.i dont want to go threw changing meds. i was thinking maybe thyrolar but dont know much about it and dont want to go threw that change

reply | quote

I hear what your saying about the Endrocronlogists!! I had one who I saw ONE TIME, and ONE TIME only, because of his attitude toward Armour---I started Armour anyway & feel great! I want to write him and say you don't know much!

reply | quote

I know what you mean too. I went to one and he said if I used Armour he would not see me. I said good by then. I now have a new Endo. She said it's ok to use it if it's working for me. She said medical feild could change it's mind any year about any thing so she has an open mind about the medication. We have to keep looking for good doctors!

reply | quote

I find it amazing that a doctor would actually REFUSE to treat someone, just because they chose to use a particular medication over another one. It's so sad that medical professionals sometimes let their egos get in the way of actually being willing to try different things for their patients' well-being.

--------------
How to Use the New ThyroidStory Site (Where & How to Post)
Technical Help For the New Site (Please post your questions!)

reply | quote

Hey gang -
Just to add on to the discussion - be aware that seemingly good looking bllodwork (FTs and so on) does not always mean that those lovely hormones are making it OUT of your bloodstream and INTO your tissues where they are needed. There are several deficiencies that can cause them, including ferritin and selenium, but it seems a common deficiency is adrenal hormones ie cortisol and DHEA. Go to stopthethyroidmadess.com and read up the adrenal page, or send email to Val - she is an excellenyt moderator and very knowledgeable re the connxn between adrenals and thyroid. If you're hypo- awhile youe adrenals make work harder to make up the lost energy, and become fatigued after awhile, producing too little cortisol to allow the T3 to be converted from blood to your cells. So your bloodwork looks lovely and you still feel like crap.
I am in Week 2 of a gradual adrenal-support, using Isocort, OTC cortisol, and the difference was remarkeable in only a couple of days. Biggest difference was my ongoing aches and pains reduced dramatically and I am finally back in the gym working out and lifting weights with minimal pain. FINALLY.

Anyway, read up and see what you think. I believe we've mentioned sttm.com before, but it's full of good info.

reply | quote

I sincerely appreciate it... and I did read it.
I'll have to gather some verses to discuss...
Thank you for saying that, that's a nice thing to say.
翻译公司&翻译

reply | quote

reply | quote

Will thyromine balance your thyroid? I recently ordered some. I am under the Tricare (military) system and the doctors refuse to treat you if you are in range. I had seen an endocrinologist once and he said my Free T4 and T3 was too low and if on an follow up by Free T4 was as low they would try me on a trial of hormone. I have managed with Iosol Iodine and probiotics to get my TSH down to 1.5 when it was 5.8; however my Free T4 is at the very lowest end of the range. I have severe constipation and often tired and any attempts at weight loss are futile...my fingernails are bending on the ends, my hair is falling out and dry. About 15 years I suddenly gained appro 20 pounds...lost it on Physicians Weight Loss but gained it back plus 10 more. For 45 plus years and with two sons I maintained 118 to 125 at 5'5"==I have a large frame. Anyway, I have all the classic symptoms and all they want to do is say eat more fiber (had two polyps in 87 and 1 last year), exercise more (when it tires instead of energizes me), your tiredness is depression...argggggggggggh! The medical field is depressing...why do the pharmacies rule and the doctors do not listen to common sense. My LDL is high which is indicative of hypothyroid. I eat a healthy diet, exercise and do not drink or smoke. I am going to make one more attempt to get my free T4 and T3 checked as they said my TSH was okay this time and then I may have to go elsewhere. I am 60 years old and do not want to have problems with my health when it could be metabolic...the root cause not lack of cholesterol lowering medication, antidepressants, fiber, or whatever else. Thanks for listening. It sounds like on the website that Thyromine could be used instead of the synthetic hormones. I just wanted to know if I should beat myself up trying with the doctors one more time or just give this a try. I tried one before from Wellness Resource--Thyroid Helper and it helped a little and I thought I was out of the woods but it is an up and down battle.

reply | quote

Hello Mivox!

My name is Martine and I have just discovered this site. I am desperately looking for a Doc who will do what you have described and treat my symptoms not my TSH levels (which are as low as yours)
Can you recommend one or share the one you have? I live in NYC.
I am absolutely convinced, after years of fatigue, weight, depression, hair loss, etc. oand going around in circles, that I need more thyroid med. (I am currently back up to Armour 120mg) They would rather give me SSRI's than even TRY higher doses!

Can you help?
My address is

reply | quote

My TSH is 0.9 and the free t4 is low (0.9 also) with free t3 at 274. I am still having the low thyroid symptoms (dry hair, hair loss-no regrowth, increased ldl, etc).....
My Dr also started me on adrenal support. THIS has helped greatly with the joint pain I was having.
Even though my labs for thyroid are low and the medication may need adjusting, what is also important is that one has enough cortisol (from the adrenals) to get the thyroid hormone in to the cells. If not, then the t3 just sits (pools) in the blood stream and makes the labs look fine, but the hormones themselves are simply not being used by the body.

reply | quote

zbmwwxsf http://ckurovyj.com limhuwgc zeunevkk zgfiimuo xrhawbhm

reply | quote

fvtpjfgb http://krfuhtyh.com vdikxbiy ihybolie sjsnkslr dcjehnpg

reply | quote

I appreciate all the advises you gave here. Since I discovered this site I started learning about diverse health conditions and this helped me with my condition. I always keep in touch with my doctor, he prescribed me celebrex
for this phase.

reply | quote